Tuesday, May 30, 2006

Loose Change

First, a disclaimer: I do not consider myself a conspiracy theorist, nor do I hold much stock in political activism. That said, I am interested--as a dilettante--in politics. I'm fond of causes, and you'll be hard pressed to find someone more passionate about whatever it is, once I get behind an idea. I don't belong to any political party or indentify myself in any particular way with the current government, nor do I seek to profit by being against it.

I sure do love me some Stephen Colbert.

When it comes to thinking about politics overall, I try to glean as much information from all available sources and then make up my own mind. As a citizen, and (hopefully) voter, it's good for you to do the same. When you watch political speeches, you almost need 3-D glasses, to see the real ideas behind all the babbble. For example, when I see Ann Coulter on some Sunday bully bullshit pulpit, cackling about how dumb liberals are, I see the fragile hag, clutching her relevance with those man hands, ever fearful of drastic political shift and the shelf-life of gimmickry. Taking in political information is really just a matter of adjusting your filters according to what gets sifted out.

Clearly, just about everyone, from the President to the freshest Congressional intern, has an agenda that requires varying degree of sleight-of-hand, glad-handing, and baldfaced lying. When does America say, "enough is enough" and invite the Bush Administration to Charles-Henri Sanson's exclusive party?

Take 9/11. The curious antics of certain political figures in the midst of staggering tragedy are worth poking with a stick. Michael Moore opened the door to public awareness of the conspiracy theories swirling around the "terrorist" attack on New York, but he's just one bigmouth. So many questions and so much stonewalling by the government equal something's up. The victims of 9/11 and all American people deserve justice.

This video is mind-boggling.

I know you hate the politics posts. Please watch the video.

10 Comments:

Blogger Sic_semper_tyrannis said...

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/putcall.asp

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/fema.htm

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/domain.htm

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/utah.htm

5:24 PM  
Blogger Trouble said...

Dude. If the government can rig two elections and commit hideous terrorist attacks against its own people, I'm certain it can manipulate www.snopes.com.

Is that all ya got?

Nice blog, by the way, it's a shame you quit.

6:58 PM  
Blogger Sic_semper_tyrannis said...

Hi -

Thank you. The elections have nothing to do with my argumernt. In fact I didn't even present an argument.

Part of your argument uses your argument to support itself, I qoute, "and commit hideous terrosist acts against it's own people"

The conspiracy theory you seem to supprt with such an "open mind" is just as absurd as the extremist muslims declaring that no Jews showed up at WTC that day and that the building blowing up were a Zionist conspiracy to entice the US to attack Islam.

Why doesn't your "open mind" look through Snopes.com, maybe even write them and challenge their thesis. You won't though because you've already condemned Snopes as an arm of the goverment, and you're open mind becomes suddenly closed to the site.

Snopes clearly tears apart that half baked attempt at an argument. You may claim to be fair, but lets face it you want to believe the govt. did it.

8:48 PM  
Blogger Trouble said...

I know you are active in Virginia politics as a Republican, but what is your angle?

The video debunks the govt, snopes.com debunks the video, it's all part of a free society, where the unfettered flow of ideas and ability to express those ideas are guaranteed by the Constitution.

As I said, I prefer to take in all sides of an issue and decide for myself, rather than lockstep in with whatever group is waving a placard at the time. So I thank you for your unique point of view.

For the record, I don't necessarily believe the Bush Administration, or Zionists, or aliens, are responsible for the events of 9/11; but until proven otherwise (and not by a debunker website) I will join the rest of the world in wondering.

11:04 AM  
Blogger Sic_semper_tyrannis said...

OK hold up -

Good guess on my sign in name. Infact I'm not a republican from Virginia, in fact I might agree with you on other issues. I don't read these things to be devils advocate, but I have to respond to this.

My angle is this. My point of view is not unique. It is held by the majority of Americans. I will grant you that most Americans have just accepted that position verbatum, however that does not make it incorrect.

In fact my position utilizes Occam's razor in its argument (I know I'm a geek). Occam's razor states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory. When multiple competing theories have equal predictive powers, the principle recommends selecting those that introduce the fewest assumptions and postulate the fewest hypothetical entities.

The site clearly uses logic to debunk conspiracy theories concerning 911's. Like I said you should challenge those if you disagree. But if you read the the arguments you will find they a rooted in sound logic. Not tangental theories loosly based.

I write all this to refute the claims made in that video. The reason why I do this is because it detracts from what really happened. What really happened is that radical muslims slammed planes into the two towers. As Americans we need to figure out how to prevent that again.

These crack pot theories not only hurt our country but detract from the debate making it meaningless in the broader context of how to stop this from happening again. The radicals that did this simply love the fact that we are blaming each other in this. That's NOT my argument as to why this theory doesn't make sense, that argument is rooted in fact not theory.

Just curious what would it take for you not to even give this "theory" any credance? Again, the arguments are clearly debunked using a sound and solid analysis of the facts.

Thanks for taking the time and keeping an open mind.

Jonah

10:06 AM  
Blogger Trouble said...

Jonah,

I do appreciate your thoughts and taking time to comment. None of my other readers give a hot damn about politics!

I simply do not agree that snopes.com presented a "sound and solid analysis" of the facts, or anything close to a clear and unfettered debunking.

For the record, I'm not convinced either way, and probably won't be. However, the video does present a compelling case for their side and backs it up with significant facts and expert opinions. The official explanation of radical muslims being phenomenally well organized and extraordinarily lucky just does not fly (so to speak)--there are too many holes in that theory.

Occam's razor--that the simplest answer is probably the right one--could be used to prove either side of this debate. "Logic" can likewise be a very subjective term, malleable to individual agenda. I don't trust the government or conspiracy theorists: I'm saddened by the loss of life on 9/11, whatever the reason.

Questions about the official story do not hurt the country, nor do they hinder attempts to prevent other attacks from happening. Taking money away from targets such as NYC and DC do, though; Who's dumb idea was that?

Pandering to hard-line Republicans about gay marriage is another good way to divert attention from anti-terrorist planning. Give me a break.

Mossad could've killed Osama Bin Laden a hundred times over by now, did you know that? If he is Mr. Most Wanted, the Big Baddie, why won't the U.S. let anyone kill him?

What really makes me angry; what makes me ready to paint placard and march on Washington, is the blank acceptance and and unquestioning "patriotism" most Americans call their political views and involvement. It definitely serves any administration to have their people sticking their heads in the ground at the mention of the word "politics", but it does not serve the greater good.

How many more people voted in the American Idol finale than in the last election?

2:59 PM  
Blogger Sic_semper_tyrannis said...

Actually Occams razor cannot be used by either side of the debate. One cannot arbitraillaly assign it to their argument. Simply put in my argument their are less "theories", fewer tangental arguments, and fewer explanations. If we were to sit down and write an point by point analysis you would see the you arguments would have two to three times more bullet points then mine. That's Occams razor.

Even though you won't believe it here is another story http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000DA0E2-1E15-128A-9E1583414B7F0000 for you to debunk these ideas.

Yes I agree that some recent political moves detract from the debate. So does this silly conspiracy theory.

However I am happy not more Americans vote given the outcome of American Idols.

Again I strongly believe that while it's great to analyze and look at all evidence, this debate detracts from the bigger picture and the evidence is just not there.

I would be interested in hearing your evidence concerning Mossad killing Bin Laden post 911.

Jonah

Jonah

5:08 PM  
Blogger Trouble said...

You want an official statement from Israeli intelligence? Good luck with that. Think you'll ever get an official statement from the CIA that reflects the reality of a particular situation?

Terrific set-up, though.

The free flow of ideas is important to a progressive and free society, won't you agree?

I will agree that focus is important, too, and time and energy is better spent on ideas that will improve our way of life and the safety of our nation.

Like overthrowing the government, for example.

Jonah, as a Virginian and a political person, what do you think Thomas Jefferson would make of the current administration?

9:58 AM  
Blogger Sic_semper_tyrannis said...

Actually I'm not a Virginian, or political. I'm a professor of history in Illinois.

All I want is evidence from you. You have none though. I have evidence. There is evidence that the hijackers boarded the planes. There is evidence that the planes were hijacked (think cockpit recordings).

The evidence you presented - I argued against. You have presented no arguments to refute except to say my side is just a valid as yours. It is not. There is no hard evidence, just tangential arguments that have a tenuous relationship to the "theory".

As far as the Mossad - I had a feeling you couldn't present any evidence. If there's no evidence why do you give it a second thought? History is not made up of conjecture and what if's, it is composed of hard evidence from tangible facts.

As for the Bush administration and Jefferson - I don't know.

I do not like the current administration, and would agree with you there, but that does not mean they planned this attact. Honestly, they are so inept how in the world do you think they could pull off a conspiracy that would coordinate the stock market and thousands of personell to kill off the passengers of the plane that slammed into the pentagon, etc. Come on.

This was fun; I unfortunately don't see many other areas of disagreement so I will have to troll neo-con sites.

Jonah

3:57 PM  
Blogger Sic_semper_tyrannis said...

P.S. I really enjoy your blog :)

4:03 PM  

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